Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) is known for being a firebrand when it comes to his conservative, small-government principles. He’s also known for being a longtime supporter of President Donald Trump, despite taking issue with some of the president’s policies.

But Paul takes issue with being what he says is the only Republican willing to stand up to Trump and his latest moves which, according to Senator Paul, fly in the face of GOP principles and campaign promises.

Most recently, he was concerned over his Republican colleagues’ hesitation to confront Trump about his now-former nominee to lead Office of the Special Counsel, Paul Ingrassia. Ingrassia withdrew from the Senate confirmation process earlier this week after POLITICO’s reporting on texts that showed him making racist and antisemitic remarks.

“I hear a lot of flack from Republicans and they want me to do it. They say, ‘Oh, well, you’re not afraid of the president. You go tell him his nominee can’t make it,’” says Paul, who chairs the Senate Homeland Security Committee. “I’m just tired of always being the whipping boy.”

In this week’s episode of The Conversation, Paul joins POLITICO’s Dasha Burns — just hours after he was snubbed from a presidential luncheon — to talk about this GOP fear of confronting Trump, support for House colleague Rep. Thomas Massie, the administration’s latest foreign policy moves, the Epstein files and a “farmageddon” that may be on the horizon.

“If I’m given the choice of President Trump versus Harris or versus Biden, without question, I choose President Trump over and over again,” says Paul. But that doesn’t mean I’m going to sit back and just say, ‘Oh, I’m leaving all my beliefs on the doorstep. I’m no longer going to be for free trade. I’m no longer going to be for balanced budgets. I’m no longer going to be opposed to killing people without trials, without naming them, without evidence.’ No, I have to remain who I am.”

Later in the show, Dasha speaks to epidemiologist and public health professor Katelyn Jetelina, the founder of the Substack “Your Local Epidemiologist.” They discuss what it’s like being a health communicator in the time of MAHA and why she thinks public health is nearing „system collapse.”

If you want more of The Conversation, check out the interviews with Senator Paul and Dr. Jetelina on YouTube and the full episode wherever you get your podcasts.

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